Saturday, August 20, 2005

The Politics of Jesus And The Oxymoron That Is “The Christian Right”.

Introduction:
Today America has seen the rise to power of the “Christian right”, with the media confirming for us all that the Republican Party is the party of Christian morals and values, while the left are “Godless” and “immoral” creatures whose only concept of faith is to defend the “evil” of Islam. We are taught that the President is a “Godly man” of “Christian faith” who follows the “teachings of Jesus”. The sole evidence for this is the Republican Party’s opposition to abortion, the attempts to mix church and state, and the pandering to Christians by a President who prays before us for all to see.

After the 2004 election I began to wonder if the Republican Party really does follow the teachings of Jesus, and if their political views are consistent with His teachings. Was Christ really opposed to abortion and homosexual marriage? Did Jesus really wish to see church and state mixed? Did He really wish for us to pay little or no taxes, fight wars against our neighbors, and reward those of us who are the most wealthy? These are the questions I sought, and in His words I will present to you the answers He gave.

Background:
In this, I will stick as much as possible to the words of Jesus given to us in the Gospel. I will utilize both the King James and the New American (Catholic) Bibles. I prefer the New American Bible as it is written in modern English, and it makes understanding easier.

For those who have never read the Gospel, each book (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) is a recount of what Jesus did while He was here. Each book tells the same story from the perspective of each author. Most of what Jesus did is recounted in each book, with almost identical wording of what He said, however there are things that are included in some books that are not included in the others. Each book also has it’s own style. Matthew, since the 2nd century A.D., has been considered as the most important book of the Gospel by the Church, and was largely thought of being the first written. The consensus of modern scholarship today is that actually the book of Mark was probably the first written. Nevertheless, the importance of the book of Matthew cannot be overlooked, as it is by far the most powerful and best written. The book of Mark is the shortest and most concise of the Gospels. And Luke tells the story in the most detail. For the purposes here, I am excluding the book of John because it was likely the last written, and unlike the synoptic Gospels, is highly literary and symbolic, does not follow the same order of events, and shows that the author developed a highly theological reflection of the events before writing it. It is a fine book of the Gospel, but for the sake of historical accuracy I will not include it here.

Author’s Note:
Feel free to copy this piece for whatever purpose you wish, all I ask is that I’m given credit for writing this and that you include a link to Nitwit Planet. Also, because my link color is red, and reading a lot of red text on black can be of some strain on the eye, Jesus’ words will appear in blue.

So what is the politics of Jesus? He taught us much, about the Kingdom of God, but in his travels and in his teachings, he also taught us much about his political leanings. There was much that he taught that was purely religious and apolitical that is more or less common knowledge in the United States. What is not terribly well known by your average American Christian is Jesus’ political leanings. You will not hear it preached by the President, much less by figures of the “Christian right” such as James Dobson, Pat Robertson, or Jerry Falwell. In fact, I would wager to guess that most of you who might be reading this hasn’t the foggiest idea what Jesus’ politics were.

Abortion:
So how would Jesus view the politics of the Republican Party today? Would Jesus be opposed to abortion? The answer is that no where in the Gospel does Jesus mention abortion one way or the other. For one to suggest that Jesus would be opposed to it is nothing more than speculation, and a fairly wild one at that. Jesus did say (Matthew 5:17-18) “‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.’” Meaning, that Jesus was saying that he was not rebuking Moses and the rest of the Bible. While in the second story of the Creation, the Bible describes what classifies a human being as officially living. (Genesis 2:7) “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” In other words, man is not alive and with a soul until he breathes.

The closest direct reference to abortion was made when Jesus was addressing his Apostles at The Last Supper. Without naming Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, (Matthew 26:20-24) “‘Amen, I say to you, one of you will betray me.’ Deeply distressed at this, they began to say to him one after another, ‘Surely it is not I, Lord?’ He said in reply, ‘He who has dipped his hand into the dish with me is the one who will betray me. The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.’”

Church and State:
Jesus didn’t have many good things to say about the religious rulers of his day, who controlled Israel. He consistently spoke out against the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Sanhedrin, as well as Herod. Jesus said of them, (Mark 8:15) “’Watch out, guard against the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod.’” Jesus didn’t just warn against them. (Matthew 3:7) “When He saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to His baptism, he said to them, ‘You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?’”

Homosexuality:
Did Jesus ever decry homosexuality, or any other form of sexual “perversion”? Jesus does not once mention homosexuality anywhere in the Gospel. The only time Jesus mentioned perversion was when he was speaking of everyone. (Luke 9:41) “O faithless and perverse generation, how long will I be with you and endure you?”

Prayer:
Would Jesus want our leaders to pray before us in the public square, in order to confirm that they are “Godly men”? (Matthew 6:2-6) “‘When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so that your almsgiving may be secret…When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them…But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.’” In fact, Jesus didn’t have very many good things to say at all about religious political and social leaders of his day. (Mark 12:38-40) “Beware of the scribes, who like to go around in long robes and accept greetings in the marketplaces, seats of honor in synagogues, and places of honor at banquets. They devour the houses of widows and, as a pretext, recite lengthy prayers. They will receive a very severe condemnation.’”

Taxation:
Would Jesus be opposed to you paying your taxes? The Pharisees asked Jesus exactly that saying, (Mark 12:14) “Is it lawful to pay the census tax to Caesar or not? Should we pay or should we not pay?” Jesus’ replay was (Mark 12:15-17) “‘Bring me a denarius to look at.’ They brought one to Him and He said to them, ‘Whose image and inscription is this?’ They replied to Him, ‘Caesar’s.’ So Jesus said to them, ‘Repay to Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God.’”

Well, Jesus might have said to pay your taxes, but what about a flat tax verses a progressive tax? The Republican Party has for some time opposed progressive taxation for a flat tax where everyone contributes the same percentage. What did Jesus have to say about this? (Mark 12:41-44) “He sat down opposite the treasury [of His ministry] and observed how the crowd put money into the treasury. Many rich people put in large sums. A poor widow also came and put in two small coins worth a few cents. Calling his disciples to Himself, He said to them, “Amen, I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the other contributors to the treasury. For they have all contributed from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has contributed all she had, her whole livelihood.”

Greed:
What did Jesus say about those who are greedy? (Matthew 6:19-24) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and decay destroy, and thieves break in and steal. But store up treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor decay destroys, nor thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be. The lamp of the body is the eye. If your eye is sound, your whole body will be filled with light; but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be in darkness. And if the light in you is darkness, how great will the darkness be. No one can serve two masters. He will either hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Mammon [money].”

The Wealthy:
It might be a bit of an understatement to say that Republicans are more favorable to business and the wealthy than they are to the poor. They have consistently decried giving welfare to the poor, meanwhile numerous tax breaks and government giveaways are given to business interests. The recent energy bill is a prime example. It gives billions to the energy industry despite their skyrocketing prices and their record profits. What would Jesus say of giving such largess to the most fortunate among us? (Matthew 19:16-24) “Now someone approached Him and said, ‘Teacher, what good must I do to gain eternal life [in heaven]?’ He answered him, ‘Why do you ask me about the good? There is only One who is good. If you wish to enter into [eternal] life, keep the commandments.’ He asked him, ‘Which ones?’ And Jesus replied, ‘You shall not kill; you shall not commit adultery; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother; and you shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ The young man said to him, ‘All of these I have observed. What do I still lack?’ Jesus said to him, ‘If you wish to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.’ When the young man heard this statement, he went away sad, for he had many possessions. Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘Amen, I say to you, it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.’” Jesus continued, (Matthew 19:30) “‘Many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.’”

Did Jesus not have a single good thing to say about those who are wealthy? Of course He did. (Luke 19:1-9) “He came to Jericho and intended to pass through the town. Now a man there named Zacchaeus, who was a chief tax collector and also a wealthy man, was seeking to see who Jesus was; but he could not see Him because of the crowd, for he was short in stature. So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore tree in order to see Jesus, who was about to pass that way. When He reached the place, Jesus looked up and said to him, ‘Zacchaeus, come down quickly, for today I must stay at your house.’ And he came down quickly and received Him with joy. When they all saw this, they began to grumble, saying, “He has gone to stay at the house of a sinner.” But Zacchaeus stood there and said to the Lord, ‘Behold, half of my possessions, Lord, I shall give to the poor, and if I have extorted anything from anyone I shall repay it four times over.’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Today salvation has come to the house of this man too, a descendent of Abraham.’”

The Poor:
If this is how Jesus felt about the wealthy, then how did he feel about the poor? Jesus spoke of the parable of Lazarus: (Luke 16:19-25) “‘There was a rich man who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day. And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores. When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’ Abraham replied, ‘My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.’”

Would it be too much to say that when you do not care for the poor among us that you are not caring for Him? In The Judgment of the Nations Jesus explained what will happen when the Messiah returns. (Matthew 25:31-34) “‘When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit upon His glorious throne, and all the nations will be assembled before Him. And He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then The King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.’” Jesus went on, saying, (Matthew 25:41-46) “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, a stranger and you gave Me no welcome, naked and you gave Me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for Me.’ Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to Your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of the least of my brothers, you did not do for Me.’ And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.’”

Capitalism:
Republicans frequently give much praise to capitalism and to the wonders of the marketplace. Their faith is so strong in the market that one might suspect that it’s righteousness came from on High. In the entire Gospel Jesus rarely ever became angry. That was not the case here. (Mark 11:15-17) “They came to Jerusalem, and on entering the temple area he began to drive out those selling and buying there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. He did not permit anyone to carry anything through the temple area. Then He taught them saying, ‘Is it not written: ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples’? But you have made it a den of thieves.’”

War:
How would Jesus view our war in Iraq? Not only did Jesus say (Matthew 12:7) “‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice’”, but when asked, (Matthew 22:36-40) “‘Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?’ He said to him, ‘You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.’”

If this is the case, then how would Jesus view the War on Terror? Would He argue an eye for an eye? (Matthew 5:38-39) “‘You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on your right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.’” But aren’t Republicans at least righteous in their anger against Muslims? (Matthew 5:21-22) “‘You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.’”

Which brings us full circle and to the anti-war moment. Recently, Bill O’Reilly said of Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a soldier who died in Iraq who is stationed outside of George W. Bush’s Crawford, Texas ranch, that “her actions border on being treasonous.” Would our Lord, Jesus of Nazareth agree? In the Sermon on the Mount Jesus proclaimed The Beatitudes: (Matthew 5:3-10)

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God…
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.”


And most importantly of all: (Matthew 5:9)

“Blessed are the peacemakers: for they will be called children of God.”

34 Comments:

Blogger jrm said...

I was wondering if I could repost this essay at my own website (here).

I'm still assembling the part on religion, so it's a bit sparse at the moment.

Please email me
[jamesrmaclean@hotmail.com]

2:43 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

Where do you get this dribble? Really. You have your head bent on the assumption that the ONLY people who voted for Bush were the religious right? You really can't believe that Bush won because Kerry was scary? It is so assanine to even believe that the ONLY reason Bush won this election was because of this "religious right" gaining some sort of power?

Could be that....

Kerry is a wacko
Kerry associated himslef with nuts like MoveOn.org
Kerry had no plans that he could offer
Kerry was exposed for being the socialist he is
Kerry was nothing more than the "anyone but Bush" vote
Kerry was in the same limelight as Michael Moore
Kerry had done NOTHING of value during his Congressional career

Truth is that Kerry could have beat Bush in a landslide. Kerry can't hide what he is and folks saw it. It has nothing to do with religion. Nice try though...really.

7:25 PM  
Blogger Alva Goldbook said...

You’re funny Miami…
I don’t believe I made a statement anywhere in this piece that the only folks who voted for Bush were Christians. However, Bush does PRETEND to be a Christian, and I am simply calling him on it. In fact, the entire Republican Party has taken the Christian faith and twisted and perverted it into something it is not. As I quite clearly demonstrated, Conservative “values” are the OPPOSITE of Christian values.

1:11 AM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

You’re funny Miami…
I don’t believe I made a statement anywhere in this piece that the only folks who voted for Bush were Christians.
====>Actually you have tried, in vain, to make that connection more than a few times. Otherwise why would you care that Rudolph was a "Cristion terrorist" and even try to point out the fact that Bush is not on par with the Pope as far as being a perfect Christian. I mean if you weren't so concerned with that link then why not rant about the fact the Bush is a poor speaker and make the connection between poor auditory skills and poor leadership as many times as you have tried to do between the religious right and conservatism. What makes you so sure that the two are so synonymous anyways...

However, Bush does PRETEND to be a Christian, and I am simply calling him on it.
===>But there is no way that you are trying to say that Bush won only because he got the religious folks to vote for him right. If you were any more transparent you would be made of glass and your blood would be made of Windex!

In fact, the entire Republican Party has taken the Christian faith and twisted and perverted it into something it is not. As I quite clearly demonstrated, Conservative “values” are the OPPOSITE of Christian values.

=====>No. What you have only managed to do was prove my point. Thanks...you can thank me later.

1:11 AM

1:24 PM  
Blogger Alva Goldbook said...

Miami,
What the hell does Eric Rudolph being a Christian terrorist have to do with Christians voting for Bush?

Of course not. Yes, the religious right did mobilize it’s base, but no more than in recent memory. Those who voted for Bush in droves were those making around 200,000 a year.

I’ll simply ask the question. What conservative value did Jesus EVER preach? Feel free to answer…I’ll wait for ya.

10:07 PM  
Blogger Alva Goldbook said...

To my wonderful Nitwit Planet readers:

There will be no further updates of this blog until next week, as I'm going on a very long awaited vacation.

When I'll get back, I'll put some of major stories of the week up that I missed.

So until next Monday, I bid you all adieu.

10:10 PM  
Anonymous AndyPerfect said...

Nice bit on the homosexuality bit, But I believe it's correctly summed up in Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I think it's pretty clear, don't you?

5:07 PM  
Blogger egalia said...

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Yup, crystal clear, us womyn should not lie with men like we lie with womyn. Hey, we already knew that.

8:41 PM  
Blogger Alva Goldbook said...

You are correct that Leviticus 18:22 says that man shall not lie with a man as it is an abomination. And yes, that is pretty clear. Leviticus 18:19 says “You shall not approach a woman to have intercourse with her while she is unclean from menstruation.” Does that mean you can’t shake her hand?

It seems that certain Christians value the words of 18:22 a bit more than the rest of the book of Leviticus. As many people who indeed feel that a man lying with a man is an abomination. However Leviticus 19:13 says “You shall not defraud or rob your neighbor. You shall not withhold overnight the wages of your day laborer.” Many conservative “Christians” would feel quite a lot less strongly about Leviticus 19:13 than 18:22. Curious, isn’t it? Leviticus 19:15 says “You shall not act dishonestly in rendering judgment. Show neither partiality to the weak nor deference to the mighty, but judge your fellow men justly.” Is the US legal system as much an abomination as homosexuality?

I’m quite sure that the President, and much of his “Christian” followers believe quite strongly in Leviticus 18:22. Do they believe as strongly in Leviticus19:16 in the case of Cindy Sheehan?

“You shall not go about spreading slander among your kinsmen”

Even less practiced is Leviticus 19:17-18. “You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart. Though you may have to reprove your fellow man, do not incur sin because of him. Take no revenge and cherish no grudge against your fellow countrymen. You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.”

Despite this, many who believe quite strongly in Lev. 18:22 feels it was just fine for Rove to out Clarke’s wife.

Farmers will be disturbed to discover that Leviticus 19:19 says “Keep my statutes: do not breed any of your domestic animals with others of a different species; do not sow a field of yours with two different kinds of seed”

19:19 continues saying “do not put on a garment woven with two different kinds of thread.” Is that polyester blend you’re wearing as much an abomination as lying with another man?

Lev. 19:26 says “Do not eat meat with the blood still in it. Do not practice divination or soothsaying.”

Better order that steak well-done next time.

Lev. 19:27 says “Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard.”

Well unless you look like ZZ Top or your average hobo you’re not following the book of Leviticus.

Leviticus 19:28 says “Do not lacerate your bodies for the dead, and do not tattoo yourselves. I am the LORD.”

That tattoo of the cross is well…an abomination too.

Leviticus 19:31 says “Do not go to mediums or consult fortune-tellers, for you will be defiled by them. I, the LORD, am your God.”

In other words, palm readers are OUT.

The most curious part of Leviticus is in chapter 14, verses 49-53. It discusses the proper way to clean a “leprosy infection of a house”, which is what we today would call mildew.

“To purify the house, he shall take two birds, as well as cedar wood, scarlet yarn, and hyssop. One of the birds he shall slay over an earthen vessel with spring water in it. Then, taking the cedar wood, the hyssop and the scarlet yarn, together with the living bird, he shall dip them all in the blood of the slain bird and the spring water, and sprinkle the house seven times. Thus shall he purify the house with the bird's blood and the spring water, along with the living bird, the cedar wood, the hyssop, and the scarlet yarn. He shall then let the living bird fly away over the countryside outside the city. When he has thus made atonement for it, the house will be clean.”

Better get rid of that bleach quickly, and exchange it with bird’s blood.

Do not mistake me, I am not making fun of scripture. However, if you are going to accept one part of Leviticus, shouldn’t you accept all of it?

6:20 AM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

Alva you are so preoccupied with what Jesus' political ideals were. That's the problem. And you try to equate Bush's victory to an upswell of "religious" fanaticism. The simple truth is that people generally were scared of Kerry being president. Regardless of their religious convictions.
You can't unwrap your head from around this idea that it was the acts of the "religious right" that got Bush elected.
Why is it so hard for you to believe that Americans voted irregardless of Bush's religious beliefs and moreover out of fear of the possible alternative to Bush? I voted for Bush and I don't make anywhere near 200,000.
You brought up Rudolph as an exmple of what the religious right is all about. Not me.
I won't tell you what Jesus' political affiliation was because he had none.

6:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It appears that your conclusion was predetermined, and then you went to the Gospels for your support. Don't you think you preach to the converted by this method? I mean, Jesus was silent on pedaphilia and concentration camps. So, are these ok? By your logic, there is nothing definitive.

3:00 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

I am sorry but was that question for me or Alva? I am not sure who that was for.

5:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

andyperfect: Nowhere in the book of Leviticus will you find Jesus quoted. Therefore, you will not find his views on homosexuality there. The only records we have that might contain any of his words are the four gospels, and a few places in other books. However, they are all in the New Testament portion of the Bible. Leviticus is found in the Old Testament portion. It was written long before Jesus was even born.

A little question for the fearless miamimiami now. You made the statement:

"You have your head bent on the assumption that the ONLY people who voted for Bush were the religious right?"

Please tell us exactly how you came to such a strange conclusion. Could it be that you read this somewhere else, and mistakenly believed that you had read it here? I've read the post several times, and that statement is not to be found.

How curious. Perhaps you would benefit from enrolling in a reading comprehension course. I'm not criticizing. I'm merely trying to be helpful.

Again, fearless miamimiami, you make an odd statement later:

"...then why not rant about the fact the(sp) Bush is a poor speaker and make the connection between poor auditory skills and poor leadership..."

Well, since you already made the case, and to a remarkable degree of certainty, what more could anyone add? Bravo! You made the connection crystal clear!

One more small point, fearless miamimiami:

"Why is it so hard for you to believe that Americans voted irregardless of Bush's religious beliefs..."

I just wondered if you purposely chose the word "irregardless" (although it isn't an actual word; look it up sometime) because of its double-negative properties. Some hidden meaning, possibly?

-charmaine-

9:12 AM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

Please tell us exactly how you came to such a strange conclusion. Could it be that you read this somewhere else, and mistakenly believed that you had read it here? I've read the post several times, and that statement is not to be found.

====>Well why won't Alva write about the numerous Americans that have no religion that voted for Bush? If you can't at least admit that this is where Alva is going with this rant than you are like a Midol in a man's body...lost and useless.

I just wondered if you purposely chose the word "irregardless" (although it isn't an actual word; look it up sometime) because of its double-negative properties. Some hidden meaning, possibly?
======>No. The problem is that you lack substannce in your argument and so from a lack of anything to counter my point you choose to go after technical aspects of grammar. Again, my point has been well established and confirmed by your inability to counter with anything more substantive than a "perceived" grammatical error. English is a constantly growing language. There have been many words that, although, were not origially part of our language have evolved and been included in our common language. For instance, Xerox can be used as a veb, blog is a new word in our language.
You also quote double negatives. Well what about these?

Jumbo Shrimp
Pretty ugly
modern liberals
democratic leadership

See? Those are examples of oxymorons that although are opposites are used in our language all of the time.

By the way just for the record...

>>>>>irregardless<<<<<

adv : regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously

10:05 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

fearful miamimiami:

Did you forget to look the word "irregardless" up? That was your homework assignment!

10:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

fearful miamimiami:
You never answered my question about how you came to this strange conclusion: "You have your head bent on the assumption that the ONLY people who voted for Bush were the religious right."

As I stated before, that statement could not be found anywhere in the post. You sound off like a person who likes to argue, but you don't want to answer for your arguments when they don't make sense.

So, maybe you read that idea somewhere else, and thought it was here. If not, have you considered enrolling in that reading comprehension course I mentioned?

-charmaine-

9:28 AM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

Ummmmm....maybe reading isn't fundamental...


Look above your post "anonymous".


Here it is again.

Please
read
it
slowly
so
that
you
don't
miss
it.

Ok.....

I wrote..."By the way just for the record...

>>>>>irregardless<<<<<

adv : regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously"

Ummmm maybe should see it again. It's right above you last post.

The pleasure was all yours I am sure....

4:23 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

Oh boy I get to make you look silly again....joy!

fearful miamimiami:
=====>Hey wait a minute I was fearless last time! What happened???



You never answered my question about how you came to this strange conclusion: "You have your head bent on the assumption that the ONLY people who voted for Bush were the religious right."
====>Again if you can't see that from Alva's rants then you are as uselss as a screendoor in a submarine.


As I stated before, that statement could not be found anywhere in the post. You sound off like a person who likes to argue, but you don't want to answer for your arguments when they don't make sense.
====>Ok I will try but you have to promise to read slowly so that you don't get lost. Promise? Ok.
When Alva writes about the Chrisian right he does so for one reason and one reason only. His main idea is that those who are Christian and are conservative are part of this group called the "Chrsitian Right". The same folks who he has accused of putting Bush in power and "fixing" voting machines. He prints articles regarding Eric Rudolph as a Christian Terrorist. The articles that he posts regarding religion is to prove to the world that those who claim to have religion and voted for Bush are somehow phonies because of folks that he considers are representative of what are the Christian right. His point is so transparent in the sense that he is placing so much credit to these Christian conservatives forhelping put Bush in office. He makes comparisons between the Christian right and the teachings of Jesus in the hope that somehow Jesus had some sort of political preference and would never agree with anything remotely associated with conservatism or the GOP.
You notice he nevers prints a nice example of the Christian right doing something nice for instance. His articles and posts are almost if not entirely all negative with regards to whom he describes as a Christian conservative. He doesn't understand that it wasn't the Christian right that voted Bush into power. The sad reality is that the reason Bush was elected had nothing to do with religion as Alva would have yu believe. I am convinced it was because Kerry was oh so scary.

I quote....
"Today America has seen the rise to power of the “Christian right”, with the media confirming for us all that the Republican Party is the party of Christian morals and values, while the left are “Godless” and “immoral” creatures whose only concept of faith is to defend the “evil” of Islam. We are taught that the President is a “Godly man” of “Christian faith” who follows the “teachings of Jesus”. The sole evidence for this is the Republican Party’s opposition to abortion, the attempts to mix church and state, and the pandering to Christians by a President who prays before us for all to see."
Why else would Alva be so concerned with the "rise to power of the Christian right" if it were not for the his belief that they were the difference in an otherwise close election? Did he write that in awe of the power of people to cast a vote? No. He then goes on to try to prove how these Christian right that is gaining power, enough power to vote a president into office,are no where near being as "godly" as he thinks they claim to be. So then he goes on this rant to prove how what he percieves are the actions of the Christian right to the teachings of Christ as if, lo and behold, the Christian right are nothing but sinners! Yikes!
So when you sit there in front of your screen and try to convince yourself that Alva is not trying to make these connections you have, madam, the common sense that God promised a billy goat.




So, maybe you read that idea somewhere else, and thought it was here. If not, have you considered enrolling in that reading comprehension course I mentioned?
=====>Right now...you must be feeling...that same sense of stupidity that came over you the last time I made you look silly.
Sorry...I tried to be sensitive about it but you obviously have trouble reading English...by the way what part of France are you from anyways?
-charmaine-

4:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-charmaine- says:
Alva, I said this down on another thread, but wanted to make sure you would see it.

I like your site, and I apologize for feeding the trolls. I will try to refrain from doing that in the future.

12:07 AM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

Oh boy.....

-charmaine- says:
Alva, I said this down on another thread, but wanted to make sure you would see it.

I like your site, and I apologize for feeding the trolls. I will try to refrain from doing that in the future.

=====>So why would you have any trouble openly and freely discussing and eventually defending your point of view unless, that is, you deep down understnad that what you are writing is sheer lunacy. As far as being a troll, again, the last time I had to deal with folks who called me names was back in grade school. It only makes you look even sillier to see that you have been bested by a "troll".

10:00 AM  
Blogger Alva Goldbook said...

I'm back from vacation folks! It was a great ole time and much drinking and fun was had. But now back to the grind.

Charmaine,
feel free to “encourage” the trolls all you like. In my first post on this blog I told everyone that their comments were welcome, and that is still true even for dipshits like Miami. : )

A secondary purpose of this blog is to encourage political debate, which is what the comment section is intended for. So by all means, whether you're a conservative or liberal, a Democrat or a Republican, an Arab or a Jew, a psychopath, or someone who is opposed to Bush, a communist/socialist/lefty pinko no-do-gooder, or an asshole/greedy/fascist/son-of-a-bitch, feel free to comment on whatever you like.

But please remember folks. It’s a cliché, but we’re all Americans first, and we’re all human beings, and presumably we’re all adults. I’m not saying anyone has done so, but please avoid random slurs and insults at each other. But otherwise, have at it.

Miami,
I have noticed that conservatives tend to be overly presumptuous. Perhaps, as a conservative you can explain why. Some time ago I told a group of conservatives that I was a vegan and explained to them the reasons why I decided to give up eating meat. Their reaction was to question why I wanted THEM to be FORCED to stop eating meat. In which case, I had to ask them what the fuck they were talking about.

Did the Bush/Cheney 04 campaign exploit Christian dogma, and pander to Christian voters in order to win the election? Of course they did. Was the Christian voters the only factor in their “victory”? Of course not. Why are you assuming that I said such a thing? Yes, according to Zogby polls, those voters who make over $200,000 a year voted overwhelmingly for Bush. Does that mean that they were the only ones who did vote for Bush? Of course not. Why are you assuming that I said this as well?

Correction, I brought up Eric Rudolph as an example of a Christian terrorist. I’m sure there are plenty of “Christian” conservatives out there who in fact are decent law abiding people. They are most likely the VAST majority. However, when you have a fringe element that is willing to terrorize other Americans in order to force a way of life that they want on the rest of us, then I am going to call them on it.

Jesus predated the Democratic and Republican parties but some 1,600 plus years. Common sense will tell you that he was neither. However, I didn’t ask you for Jesus’ political affiliation. I asked you what conservative VALUES did Jesus ever preach. So in other words, Miami…try again. By the way, I’ll save you the effort of looking…the answer is that Jesus NEVER once preached a single thing that modern conservatives today value. Rather, He preached the OPPOSITE. But maybe I’m wrong…so…PROVE IT.

Anonymous,
Actually, my conclusion was not predetermined at all. When I started reading it I expected to find a lengthy rant about the things that I was taught was in the Gospels. Preaching against “pleasures of the flesh”, homosexuality, long rants about how anything that could possibly be considered “liberal” behavior was the work of Satan. I found virtually none of this, and actually was surprised (if not shocked) to find much of the opposite. I am hardly preaching to anyone, rather I am informing those who wouldn’t otherwise know, of the what Jesus actually said, in his own words.

Jesus was also silent on watching television and listening to Snoop Doggy Dog. But actually by your average person’s measure “loving thy neighbor” would hardly include putting them into a concentration camp…unless you’re a masochist. Which brings us to pedaphilia…no, we can’t say for sure what Jesus might have said about going up a child’s “yellow brick road”. I mean, when Jesus said, “suffer the little children, come unto thee”, that’s NOT what he was talking about, despite what the Catholic church might think.

6:49 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

From one dipshit to another...welcome back...



I'm back from vacation folks! It was a great ole time and much drinking and fun was had. But now back to the grind.

Charmaine,
feel free to “encourage” the trolls all you like. In my first post on this blog I told everyone that their comments were welcome, and that is still true even for dipshits like Miami. : )

====>That's awful nice of you.

A secondary purpose of this blog is to encourage political debate, which is what the comment section is intended for. So by all means, whether you're a conservative or liberal, a Democrat or a Republican, an Arab or a Jew, a psychopath, or someone who is opposed to Bush, a communist/socialist/lefty pinko no-do-gooder, or an asshole/greedy/fascist/son-of-a-bitch, feel free to comment on whatever you like.
======>See Charmain even a wacko lib like Alva understands that. So if it bothers you then move to a more Charmaine-friendly place.

But please remember folks. It’s a cliché, but we’re all Americans first, and we’re all human beings, and presumably we’re all adults. I’m not saying anyone has done so, but please avoid random slurs and insults at each other. But otherwise, have at it.
======>Yeah even a dipshit like me can understand that! HAHAHA.

Miami,
I have noticed that conservatives tend to be overly presumptuous. Perhaps, as a conservative you can explain why. Some time ago I told a group of conservatives that I was a vegan and explained to them the reasons why I decided to give up eating meat. Their reaction was to question why I wanted THEM to be FORCED to stop eating meat. In which case, I had to ask them what the fuck they were talking about.
=====>And I am sure that if you told me that you were a vegan i couldn't have cared less and neither ofmy conservative or liberal friends would have either. So what is the point? Some people just don't eat meat. Who cares....



Did the Bush/Cheney 04 campaign exploit Christian dogma, and pander to Christian voters in order to win the election? Of course they did. Was the Christian voters the only factor in their “victory”? Of course not. Why are you assuming that I said such a thing? Yes, according to Zogby polls, those voters who make over $200,000 a year voted overwhelmingly for Bush. Does that mean that they were the only ones who did vote for Bush? Of course not. Why are you assuming that I said this as well?
=====>It is clearly obvious in your portrayal of whom you consider a "good Chirstian" is or isn't. And I think that if you were completely forthcoming you would admit that you do give much credit to the "Chistian Right" for getting Bush elected. My point is merely that Bush would have won regardless of his religous overtones because Kerry was a weak candidate. I will readily admit to you that if Bill Clinton had run against Bush it would have been a different set of circumstances because Bill would have been smarter than to run with the pack of village idiots that Kerry did.



Correction, I brought up Eric Rudolph as an example of a Christian terrorist. I’m sure there are plenty of “Christian” conservatives out there who in fact are decent law abiding people.
=======>And he is, of course, the very minority of Christians yet you just seem to glance over the majority of the terrorists who are, sorry Alva,Islamic. That's just the truth. I don't think you are being completely honest here.




They are most likely the VAST majority. However, when you have a fringe element that is willing to terrorize other Americans in order to force a way of life that they want on the rest of us, then I am going to call them on it.

=======>So then why all of the articles trying to relate Bush's victory to this rise in power of the Christian Right? My point has always been that you place too much credit on this element and not enough credit to the people that made Kerry too scary for people to vote for him.


Jesus predated the Democratic and Republican parties but some 1,600 plus years. Common sense will tell you that he was neither. However, I didn’t ask you for Jesus’ political affiliation. I asked you what conservative VALUES did Jesus ever preach. So in other words, Miami…try again.
=====>You are trying too hard to politicize Jesus. You need to try again. I pose to you this question. Did Jesus propose abortion? Would he have been for THAT? No. But to ask that would be to try to pigeon-hole Jesus into a politcal party or dogma and it is an erroneous thing to attempt.



By the way, I’ll save you the effort of looking…the answer is that Jesus NEVER once preached a single thing that modern conservatives today value. Rather, He preached the OPPOSITE. But maybe I’m wrong…so…PROVE IT.
=====>Ok. here goes....

1.Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
(Democrats would like to do nothing better than to simply give and create a welfare state instead helping people do for themselves)
2. Jesus actually believed in God. He wasn't trying to separate the people from using His name. He actually wanted people to pray.
3.Jesus was not for abortion. If that was the case Mary would have had Him aborted and He would have never been.
4.Jesus believed in Creationism. Liberals don't.
5.Jesus would have been for the ...under God...part of the pledge of allegiance, liberals aren't.
But again to make these comparisons is erroneous because jesus didn't have a political view on things as you would like him to have had.


Anonymous,
Actually, my conclusion was not predetermined at all. When I started reading it I expected to find a lengthy rant about the things that I was taught was in the Gospels. Preaching against “pleasures of the flesh”, homosexuality, long rants about how anything that could possibly be considered “liberal” behavior was the work of Satan. I found virtually none of this, and actually was surprised (if not shocked) to find much of the opposite. I am hardly preaching to anyone, rather I am informing those who wouldn’t otherwise know, of the what Jesus actually said, in his own words.

Jesus was also silent on watching television and listening to Snoop Doggy Dog. But actually by your average person’s measure “loving thy neighbor” would hardly include putting them into a concentration camp…unless you’re a masochist. Which brings us to pedaphilia…no, we can’t say for sure what Jesus might have said about going up a child’s “yellow brick road”. I mean, when Jesus said, “suffer the little children, come unto thee”, that’s NOT what he was talking about, despite what the Catholic church might think.

11:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-charmaine-says:

The quote, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." , was made by Lao Tzu, father of Taoism. Not Jesus.

-charmaine-

12:41 PM  
Blogger Alva Goldbook said...

Miami,
Correction, the vast majority of terrorists that attack the United States are Islamic. Christian and Jewish terrorists attack Arab nations all the time. The United States frequently terrorizes the Arab world as well as Central and South America. Religion is not the root cause of terrorism, whether it’s the Islamic, Christian, or Jewish faiths. The common factor between all terrorists is that they are all radical conservatives.

What articles relating Bush’s victory to the rise of the Christian Right?

Go back the read my post Miami. Would Jesus propose abortion? The answer is that no one knows as He didn’t say anything about it one way or another. And I am certainly not saying that Jesus was in any way, shape, or form a Democrat, or would be today. What I AM saying is that traditional LIBERAL values and the values that Jesus taught are ONE IN THE SAME, while conservative values are the opposite.

Oh boy…
You know, I was expecting for you to at least make some attempt at proving me wrong by quoting some scripture somewhere. I guess I shouldn’t get my hopes up.

1. Jesus never said anything about giving a man a fish for a day. He never said anything about teaching men to fish. The closest thing to it was when he came upon some fishermen and asked them to follow Him. Instead, what he DID DO was turn a few loaves and fishes into enough food to feed 5,000 men. In other words, Miami, Jesus DID give several men, on several different occasions fish for a day. And speaking of the welfare state, Karl Marx wrote, “In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life’s prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly -- only then can the narrow horizon of the bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!”

This communist ideology was in fact lifted by Marx directly from the Bible. I give you the book of Acts, chapter 4, verses 32-35. “The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great favor was accorded them all. There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale, and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.”

2. Liberals don’t believe in God? Since when? Did I forget to check my e-mail again? Read my piece again Miami. Jesus wanted us to pray…but only in a certain way. And since when are ANY liberals trying to prevent anyone from praying? Liberals just don’t want you to be FORCED to pray.

3. Jesus was opposed to abortion? Since when? Not even the Catholic Church has been opposed to abortion for most of its existence. And Miami, Mary COULDN’T have aborted him, as it was written that no harm could come upon Him.

4. Miami, Jesus was highly oppositional to the religious leaders of the day. A fundamental part of Creationism, is that God rested on the 7th day, and that day, the Sabbath, was to be kept holy. The Pharisees attempted to have Jesus arrested for healing people on the Sabbath. Jesus’ response was that “man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man.”

5. Jesus would have been for the “under God” part in our pledge of allegiance, even though it was put there by radical conservatives in the 1950’s at the height of McCarthyism? And what liberals are against it? All of them? Is there a secret club called “liberalism” that no one is allowed into unless they prove and proclaim that they are Godless atheists?

In other words, Miami…you fail on all counts. Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll eventually find some quote from Jesus that indicates some conservative value somewhere. Just remind me to hold my breath.

Oh, and by the way, Miami…Jesus was crucified for blasphemy.

2:40 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

Miami,
Correction, the vast majority of terrorists that attack the United States are Islamic. Christian and Jewish terrorists attack Arab nations all the time. The United States frequently terrorizes the Arab world as well as Central and South America.
=====>I can't remember the last time the US purposely killed thousands of civilians because they didn't believe in Jesus, at least not lately. But then again they may have done it 100 years ago and you just may have a long memory and the same amount of ill-will since then.



Religion is not the root cause of terrorism, whether it’s the Islamic, Christian, or Jewish faiths. The common factor between all terrorists is that they are all radical conservatives.
=======>Ok. It isn't because they hate Americans. I have a revelationfor you Alva, they will kill you even if you are not conservative.


What articles relating Bush’s victory to the rise of the Christian Right?
====>Re-read the first 4 to 5 lines of your original post.


Go back the read my post Miami. Would Jesus propose abortion? The answer is that no one knows as He didn’t say anything about it one way or another.
=====>He also didn't say anything about jello but he might have liked it. Is that how you avoid this question? Let me ask you, in all seriousness. If you had to place a bet which way do you think he would go on that one? Do you think he would take the Democrat's point of view or the liberal point of view on that? Do you really think he would? i am not trying to say if Jesus was a liberal or conservative as I believe he had no inclinations either way but please don't insult your own intelligence by copping out like that.



And I am certainly not saying that Jesus was in any way, shape, or form a Democrat, or would be today. What I AM saying is that traditional LIBERAL values and the values that Jesus taught are ONE IN THE SAME, while conservative values are the opposite.
======>Yeah but your kind are not that kind of liberal and I think that you know that.


Oh boy…




You know, I was expecting for you to at least make some attempt at proving me wrong by quoting some scripture somewhere. I guess I shouldn’t get my hopes up.

=====>I never claimed to be a Biblical scholar.

1. Jesus never said anything about giving a man a fish for a day. He never said anything about teaching men to fish. The closest thing to it was when he came upon some fishermen and asked them to follow Him. Instead, what he DID DO was turn a few loaves and fishes into enough food to feed 5,000 men. In other words, Miami, Jesus DID give several men, on several different occasions fish for a day. And speaking of the welfare state, Karl Marx wrote, “In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life’s prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly -- only then can the narrow horizon of the bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!”
======>Jesus did not hate the "rich" liie Karl Marx did. That is a principle that has never manifested itself because it is inherently wrong. If it did work then everyone would be equal and those countries that did practice Marxism would have flourished. I have yet to see one that has. I may have misquoted Jesus on that one but you still can't argue the fact that karl Marx has been overwhelming proven wrong over and over again throughout history. One aspect that you also failed to mentioned is that Jesus did teach the people to pray. Not beg.

This communist ideology was in fact lifted by Marx directly from the Bible. I give you the book of Acts, chapter 4, verses 32-35. “The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. With great power the apostles bore witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great favor was accorded them all. There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale, and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.”

2. Liberals don’t believe in God? Since when? Did I forget to check my e-mail again? Read my piece again Miami. Jesus wanted us to pray…but only in a certain way. And since when are ANY liberals trying to prevent anyone from praying? Liberals just don’t want you to be FORCED to pray.


======>No one was forced to pray in public schools but the liberals took that away. Are you going to tell me that this so-called separation of church and state is NOT a liberal fantasy? Please tell me where it exists in the Constitution because it doesn't. It was theliberals who took prayer and anything remotely religious out of the public squares in this country.


3. Jesus was opposed to abortion? Since when? Not even the Catholic Church has been opposed to abortion for most of its existence. And Miami, Mary COULDN’T have aborted him, as it was written that no harm could come upon Him.

======>Nice try but answer the question. Would Jesus have opposed abortion. For that matter did your own mother oppose abortion? I guess we all know the answer to that don't we?



4. Miami, Jesus was highly oppositional to the religious leaders of the day. A fundamental part of Creationism, is that God rested on the 7th day, and that day, the Sabbath, was to be kept holy. The Pharisees attempted to have Jesus arrested for healing people on the Sabbath. Jesus’ response was that “man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for man.”


=====>Jesus would have had no problem teaching that the world was created by God. How is it that you can't see that?

5. Jesus would have been for the “under God” part in our pledge of allegiance, even though it was put there by radical conservatives in the 1950’s at the height of McCarthyism?
====>Again why would Jesus been opposed to "Under God?" Do you think that he would not agree that the land was created by God? Do you think that he would disagree that had God not created the Earth and it's inhabitants that there would have never been a united States?

And what liberals are against it? All of them? Is there a secret club called “liberalism” that no one is allowed into unless they prove and proclaim that they are Godless atheists?
=======>So then you are for public school prayer, under God in the pledge of allegiance, in God we trust on our currency and agree with me that no where inthe constitution is there a separation of church and state? Well then I guess you and I are closer in agreement than I thought. i apologize.

In other words, Miami…you fail on all counts. Don’t worry, I’m sure you’ll eventually find some quote from Jesus that indicates some conservative value somewhere. Just remind me to hold my breath.

=======>Hey you still haven't thanked me for all the other corrections I have made to your other bogus claims.....

Oh, and by the way, Miami…Jesus was crucified for blasphemy.

6:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-charmaine-says:

Miamimiami,
Did you forget to argue with me about who said these words:

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."?

However, this quote:
"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's." is said to have been made by Jesus. He makes a clear distinction between Caesar(government), and God.

And this:
"But when you pray, go into your chamber, and closing the door, pray to your Father who is in secret."
Why do christians continue to want their children to pray in school, a public place, when Jesus taught his disciples to avoid public prayer?

Oh, and let's not forget this:
"Blessed are the PEACEMAKERS, for they shall be called the sons of God."

-charmaine-

7:16 AM  
Blogger Alva Goldbook said...

Miami,
When did I say the US purposely killed thousands of civilians because they don’t believe in Jesus? The US does terrorize much of the world, a textbook example was when Bush announced to Iraq that we will bomb you unless Saddam leaves the country. The Bush administration later terrorized (and continues to terrorize) the people of Haiti by overthrowing their democracy and putting wanted terrorists in charge of the country. Condi Rice also committed acts of terrorism (by the definition laid out in US Code) by making suggestions that the US should do something about Hugo Chavez (another democratically elected leader). Noticing the current administration’s track record, you’d think they were fighting a war against democracy and freedom instead of terrorism.

No, Arab terrorists don’t hate Americans. What they hate is US foreign policy. All you have to do is actually READ what Osama bin Laden has been saying. If the US wasn’t tampering with the middle east for our own benefit, then Osama bin Laden would pay as much attention to us as he does to Luxembourg. That’s not the point. The point is that terrorists are radical conservatives. Eric Rudolph is not a lefty. Osama bin Laden is not a lefty. Mohammad Atta, Aymen Zawarhiri, and Emanuel Constant are all radical conservatives. If you want to fight terrorism, you don’t attack Islam, Christianity, or any other faith. You attack the ideology that brought the world Hitler’s madness. You fight radical conservatism.

Miami, if I had to bet, I think that Jesus would back up what the BIBLE says about when life actually begins. Go back and read Genesis 2:7.

Oh, I see. I don’t value traditional liberal values like helping someone else who needs help? I guess I wouldn’t be prone to let homeless people stay at my place and get a meal to eat? Riiight. Miami the major difference between liberalism and conservatism is that liberals think that “we all do better when we ALL do better”. Conservatives could give a rat’s ass about anyone but themselves. For them, it is “we all do better, when I do better and can ignore the rest of them more easily.” Jesus didn’t teach us to ignore those of us in need, He taught us that if your neighbor is in need, it is your responsibility to help him.

I never claimed to be a Biblical scholar either. That doesn’t mean that I’m just GUESSING about what Jesus said about issues that face us today. Instead, I quote Him. You’re more prone to pull things out of your ass.

When did Marx say he hated the rich? Marx hated the economics that produced separate classes of people. Because as long as they are those who are rich, there has to be those of us who are poor. Both Marx and Jesus said quite similar things about this.

I’d hate to have to inform you of this Miami, but no country has ever practiced Marxism. Not the Soviets, not China, not Cuba. None of them. I’m not saying that Marx was right about everything, but I think he was definitely on to something. Those who have refined Marx’s vision, have developed several economic models based on direct democratic participation by the people. Those models have worked wonders at various businesses throughout Canada, the United States, Argentina, and most recently Venezuela.

Again, you just randomly pull things out of your ass. The world “beg” has a negative connotation, but it means pretty much the same thing as being humbled. Jesus said in Luke 18:14 “for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” But I rather like Luke Chapter 14. Verse 12: “When you hold a lunch or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or your wealthy neighbors…Rather, when you hold a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind; blessed indeed will you be because of their inability to repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.” And of course, verse 33: “In the same way, everyone of you who does not renounce ALL HIS POSSESSIONS cannot be my disciple.” Now Miami…does this sound more like capitalism….or Marxism? Jesus continued saying, “Whoever has ears to hear OUGHT TO HEAR.” So unless you’re deaf Miami, you have no excuses.

The liberals took what away? You can’t pray in public schools? Since when? You think every time a kid bows his head a teacher whacks them with a ruler shouting “stop praying!” Give me a break. You can pray anywhere at anytime. What you can’t do is use the STATE to FORCE people to pray. There is nothing in the Constitution that demands the separation of church and state? Gee, I seem to remember the first words of the 1st amendment of the Constitution of the United States being, and I QUOTE, “Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of RELIGION.”

Miami, again, we can’t know exactly what Jesus would have said about abortion specifically. But he did say he was not refuting the rest of the Bible, and Genesis 2:7 says that life begins when you take your first breath. I have no clue what my own mother’s views have to do with anything, but she has always been strongly PRO CHOICE.

And I have no problem with anyone teaching our children religion. But you teach children religion in a CHURCH, while you teach children science in a SCHOOL. That way you can teach your children the religion of YOUR choice, instead of the GOVERNMENT’S choice.

Are you really trying to say that ONLY atheists can be against public school prayer? Do you really believe such nonsense? Jesus taught us that when you pray you are not to be like the hypocrites, but you are to pray behind closed doors and in private. I am against the “under God” part being ADDED to the pledge of allegiance because “CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISH OF RELIGION” Try READING the Constitution before you mouth off about it.

12:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is Anonymous pedaphilia & camps.

Your response was thoughtful, but upon reviewing it, it seems to me that your scriptural quotes were interpreted and tailored for your own beliefs. For example, abortion. Jesus believed in souls, so abortion would not be something he would advocate. Without question, abortion would be offensive to Jesus. I get the sense that souls is not a concept you personally believe in. Also, are you aware that all liberal Christian sects that tolerate abortion are dying? Ironic, no? So, rethink that there conclusion that Jesus was neutral on abortion. To argue that tells me that you fail to grasp the basic tenets of Christianity. Who taught you the Gospels, Tom Cruise?

6:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

more anonymous pedaphilia & camps

Why does the concept of a Christian voting bloc continue to stun and amaze liberals everywhere when the nation is almost overwhelmingly Christian? And why do those amazing liberals always attribute the worst qualities to them?

6:48 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

When did I say the US purposely killed thousands of civilians because they don’t believe in Jesus? The US does terrorize much of the world, a textbook example was when Bush announced to Iraq that we will bomb you unless Saddam leaves the country.
=====>That's not terrorism and you know that to be true. And I never said that you said that. I am making the statement to illustrate how we are not like the terrorists that will kill you, yes ever-so-loving-of -the insurgents Alva, because you are an infidel. The US doesn't kill people based on their religion.


The Bush administration later terrorized (and continues to terrorize) the people of Haiti by overthrowing their democracy and putting wanted terrorists in charge of the country.
====?How is the US terrorizing Haiti and how would you know this, maybe you know more Haitians than I do all the way over in the west coast?


Condi Rice also committed acts of terrorism (by the definition laid out in US Code) by making suggestions that the US should do something about Hugo Chavez (another democratically elected leader).
====>I would think that you would be as aware of Chavez as the other Venezuelans that you have spoken to. They will tell you that the election was completely rigged. And not rigged like you would like to believe in relation to Buhs winning by more votes but rigged in the real sense. Aren't you liberals always talking about helping the "little' guy? Well here's your chance....



Noticing the current administration’s track record, you’d think they were fighting a war against democracy and freedom instead of terrorism.
=====>That's so dumb to comment on it would be equal to flicking the ear of a retarded kid in school.


No, Arab terrorists don’t hate Americans. What they hate is US foreign policy.
=====>Oh so that would explain why they chose to kill 3000 American CIVILIANS and not the policy makers. So what are you going to tell me now that they accidentally mistook the Twin Towers thinking that our forign policy was devised there? Alva, please gfo to Iraq and help the insurgents. They NEED your moral support please. Put your efforts where they will be of most use. When those Aab terrorists are feeling down because their bomb-making factory was just blown up you can lift their spirits....





All you have to do is actually READ what Osama bin Laden has been saying. If the US wasn’t tampering with the middle east for our own benefit, then Osama bin Laden would pay as much attention to us as he does to Luxembourg.
=====>Alva, Osama was upset because we Americans supposedly desecrated holy land when we defended Saudi Arabia from Iraq and he was snubbed by the royal family. Oh and by the way even back then I head the same nonsense about it being about oil but I haven't seen how many barrels of oil that were taken by the US after that war.


That’s not the point. The point is that terrorists are radical conservatives. Eric Rudolph is not a lefty. Osama bin Laden is not a lefty. Mohammad Atta, Aymen Zawarhiri, and Emanuel Constant are all radical conservatives. If you want to fight terrorism, you don’t attack Islam, Christianity, or any other faith. You attack the ideology that brought the world Hitler’s madness. You fight radical conservatism.
======>This is how you win wars......
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."-George Patton


Miami, if I had to bet, I think that Jesus would back up what the BIBLE says about when life actually begins. Go back and read Genesis 2:7.
====>So then you agree that the world was created by God? See we DO see eye to eye on something.



Oh, I see. I don’t value traditional liberal values like helping someone else who needs help? I guess I wouldn’t be prone to let homeless people stay at my place and get a meal to eat? Riiight.
=====>How many homeless people have you ever dealt with? I will bet that you haven't dealt with nearly the amount of homeless people that I have.


Miami the major difference between liberalism and conservatism is that liberals think that “we all do better when we ALL do better”.
====>Ah yes the liberal dillemma. Everybody should win but let's still maintain our individualism. So if we all do better when we ALL do better than why was their such a ruckuss when the NYPD was checking bags at subways after the Londonn subway bombings? Oh the libs were crying about losing their individual freedoms but if we seach all those bags don't we ALL do better? When liberals speak of equality they almost always want to explain how everyone is equal and nop one is better than anyone else but they still support affirmative action and maintaining quotas for schools. I can't even what Alva would say if there was a Miss White America or a White Entertainment Television channel, why THAT would be racist right? But let a private club or group exclude women or homosexuals and its an outrage to the liberal. TYes the liberal is quite the contradictory individual. After people were given a tax break the libs cried out that only the rich were getting them but I can't remember those same liberals giving their mony back to the treasury....


Conservatives could give a rat’s ass about anyone but themselves. For them, it is “we all do better, when I do better and can ignore the rest of them more easily.”
=====>Actually you are wrong. I will use the current tax breaks. Taking less taxes out of people's checks helped the economy and put more money in people's hands. You may want to research this but the last time there was a tax break that big was under the Kennedy administration. And you also forget the the Civil Rights Act wasn't passed by Democrats but by the Republicans in Congress. Kennedy had to break ranks with the Dems to get that passed. And now that Bush wants to reinvent the same social security plan that was proposed by Clinton so that the poorest of us, black males who usually dopn't make it past 65 anyways, a chance to get more money to retire with it's the Democrats who want to take that away. When the Republicans wanted to give people whose kids where in failing schools a waiver so that they can take their tax dollars and put their kids in private schools, it is the dems who decided that it was unfair for those mostly poor black kids in bad schools to get a high quality education, the same one that the elitist liberal snobs provide for their kids, because it violates this mythical separation of church and state.


Jesus didn’t teach us to ignore those of us in need, He taught us that if your neighbor is in need, it is your responsibility to help him.

======>So then why not help people retire with their own money, get a better education, and have more oney from less taxes? That's real help.

I never claimed to be a Biblical scholar either. That doesn’t mean that I’m just GUESSING about what Jesus said about issues that face us today. Instead, I quote Him. You’re more prone to pull things out of your ass.
======>Alva, I only show you where you have fallen off of the dfeep end. I can throw you the rope but you still have to grab it.

When did Marx say he hated the rich? Marx hated the economics that produced separate classes of people.
====>You mean the same kind of class envy that liberals like to keep going?

Because as long as they are those who are rich, there has to be those of us who are poor. Both Marx and Jesus said quite similar things about this.

=====>Yes but the difference is that Jesus didn't blame poverty on the rich. Notice the difference?



I’d hate to have to inform you of this Miami, but no country has ever practiced Marxism. Not the Soviets, not China, not Cuba. None of them. I’m not saying that Marx was right about everything, but I think he was definitely on to something. Those who have refined Marx’s vision, have developed several economic models based on direct democratic participation by the people. Those models have worked wonders at various businesses throughout Canada, the United States, Argentina, and most recently Venezuela.

=====>Again I have yet to see Marxism ever flourish and work in the way that you libs celebrate it.

Again, you just randomly pull things out of your ass. The world “beg” has a negative connotation, but it means pretty much the same thing as being humbled. Jesus said in Luke 18:14 “for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” But I rather like Luke Chapter 14. Verse 12: “When you hold a lunch or a dinner, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your relatives or your wealthy neighbors…Rather, when you hold a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind; blessed indeed will you be because of their inability to repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous.” And of course, verse 33: “In the same way, everyone of you who does not renounce ALL HIS POSSESSIONS cannot be my disciple.” Now Miami…does this sound more like capitalism….or Marxism? Jesus continued saying, “Whoever has ears to hear OUGHT TO HEAR.” So unless you’re deaf Miami, you have no excuses.

=====>Actually yes. Capitalism has brought more prosperity toi more people than just handing out things and creating welfare states and enitlements. Have you ever considered that to show someone how to be sefl reliant is as big a gift as just handing him some bread?

The liberals took what away? You can’t pray in public schools? Since when? You think every time a kid bows his head a teacher whacks them with a ruler shouting “stop praying!” Give me a break. You can pray anywhere at anytime.
====>When was the last time you were in a classroom? It's called a momnet of silent meditation not school prayer. And no one was ever forced to pray. No one was expelled for not praying.


What you can’t do is use the STATE to FORCE people to pray. There is nothing in the Constitution that demands the separation of church and state? Gee, I seem to remember the first words of the 1st amendment of the Constitution of the United States being, and I QUOTE, “Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an ESTABLISHMENT of RELIGION.”
=====>Will you agree with me that the writers of the constitution were literal people and knew how to write? Well if they wanted a "separation of church and stae" I think they would have written that. It probably would have read something like this...."Congress shall maintain a separation of the church and state...." They didn't write that. They merely did not want the government to establish a state religion meaning that you can be religious and freely express your religion and the state shall not force you into any one particualr religion. Everytime there is a single connotation barely relating to religion in the public square it isn't the radical muslims or the militant jews or the christian right that argues separation of church and state it's the godless libs....



Miami, again, we can’t know exactly what Jesus would have said about abortion specifically. But he did say he was not refuting the rest of the Bible, and Genesis 2:7 says that life begins when you take your first breath. I have no clue what my own mother’s views have to do with anything, but she has always been strongly PRO CHOICE.

======>Jesus would have been against abortion. The worst part about what you wrote is that not even you believe that it isn't so. Please...be serious.

And I have no problem with anyone teaching our children religion. But you teach children religion in a CHURCH, while you teach children science in a SCHOOL. That way you can teach your children the religion of YOUR choice, instead of the GOVERNMENT’S choice.
=====>So then you would have no problem with a poor black kid being allowed to use tax money to go to a private school that happens to be a religiuous one right? I mean it's better in the long run that this poor kid get a bette education isn't it?



Are you really trying to say that ONLY atheists can be against public school prayer? Do you really believe such nonsense? Jesus taught us that when you pray you are not to be like the hypocrites, but you are to pray behind closed doors and in private. I am against the “under God” part being ADDED to the pledge of allegiance because “CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING AN ESTABLISH OF RELIGION” Try READING the Constitution before you mouth off about it.

=====>I already handed you your ass on the constitution but you can thank me later,.

8:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-charmaine-says:
fearful miamimiami thinks he has handed someone their ass, sometime in the past.

However, this is coming from someone who thought that this quote, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", was made by Jesus.

Perhaps if he would READ the Bible before attempting to discuss christianity and Jesus, he could stop making a fool of himself. Knowing something about the topic might help to stop that from happening.

I'm just trying to be helpful.

-charmaine-

2:26 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

fearful miamimiami thinks he has handed someone their ass, sometime in the past.

However, this is coming from someone who thought that this quote, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.", was made by Jesus.

Perhaps if he would READ the Bible before attempting to discuss christianity and Jesus, he could stop making a fool of himself. Knowing something about the topic might help to stop that from happening.

I'm just trying to be helpful.
=====>let me help you with some things. I have already mentioned that I AM NOT a biblical scholar but since we are on the subject let's review, shall we?

It was you that referred to me as a "white European terrorist" and this was based SOLELY on the fact that I am an American citizen when, in fact, I am of Cuban decent. So if we are going to talk about whom is making a fool of themselves let's not forget that it was your ass that I handed to you on more than one occasion. I have intellectually bullied you into more corners than you knew how to back out of.

But of course you already knew this......

5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

-charmaine-says:

fearful miamimiami said:
"it was your ass that I handed to you"

I don't know whose ass you've been handing out, but mine's been right here with me the whole time.

Please feel free to let us know when you are going to Iraq.

-charmaine-

9:14 PM  
Blogger MiamiMiami said...

earful miamimiami said:
"it was your ass that I handed to you"

I don't know whose ass you've been handing out, but mine's been right here with me the whole time.

Please feel free to let us know when you are going to Iraq.
=====>Do you know what insanity is? It's doing the same thing over and over agin and expecting different results. This is insanity. I have handed you your own ass on this same thing about 12 times already.

Again when YOU going over there to help your terror buddies, sweetcheeks?

3:44 AM  

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